swiftsnowmane | Anakin as Avatar

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Anakin as Avatar

"
Anakin…exists relative to the state of the galaxy. He is not Luke, he is not the youth of western literature on a journey; that is Luke’s role. Anakin’s role is that of the demi-god of Greek and Roman origin. When Anakin rises, the galaxy rises with him, when Anakin is in turmoil, the galaxy is in turmoil, when Anakin falls, so falls the galaxy. Anakin is intrinsic to the galaxy because Anakin, like so many other mythological demi-gods, is an avatar for the gods or, in the case of Star Wars, the Force. Regardless of any one person’s views on the Force (which are extremely disparate and widely varied, so we won’t broach that subject here), this fact is indisputable. Anakin, as the Chosen One who will “bring balance to the Force”, is its avatar. When Anakin is claimed by the Dark, the Jedi Order’s zenith is reached, the Balance is tipped, and the Order descends into darkness with Anakin, just as his return also signals theirs.

The title ‘Return of the Jedi’ doesn’t just reference Luke becoming a Jedi, but Anakin’s return to the Light, and with it, the ability for the Jedi Order to once more flourish. In this he is much like Beowulf, when the Geatish hero sacrifices himself to defeat the dragon at the end of the epic poem. Failure would spell ultimate destruction for Beowulf’s people and country, just as, had Anakin failed to destroy the Emperor, the Jedi and the galaxy would truly have been wiped out. Anakin himself has to die, however, because he is what tips the scales. Once he dies and becomes one with the Force, only then is balance restored."

-- ‘STAR WARS: The Creation of a Modern Myth: Cultural Influence, Fan Response and the Impact of Literary Archetypes on Saga Perception’

(via muldertorture)

This right here is absolutely fundamental to understanding the entire purpose of the Skywalker saga, as Lucas so painstakingly told it. The destruction of the old Jedi Order that had ‘lost its way’ and forgotten its true role in the galaxy, and the founding of the New, heralded by Anakin’s return to the Light, and Luke’s essential role in reminding him—and us all—of what it means to be a True Jedi.

P.S. If anyone is interested in reading more on this topic and on the significance of George Lucas' Star Wars as a mythology in general, I HIGHLY recommend the above linked essay!

** Original posts HERE and HERE.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Thank you for linking this, I had never read it before, so interesting.

Ooh, you are so welcome! Muldertorture brings up some excellent points that should definitely be more widely discussed. It's been over a decade now since Lucas' six-film saga has existed in its completed form, but not much in a scholarly or academic sense has been written on it as a whole. So it's great to see people at least talking about it on this kind of level.

It is so interesting to me, because, fan as I am of the movies, I'm not very involved in meta reading of them. So, reading this is super fascinating and I'm glad you are sharing it. So I think I will be doing more reading here on out, so if you have some meta to recommend, I'd welcome it.

Aww, I totally understand what you mean -- I may be a lifelong SW fan, but it's only been in the last year or so that I've started to truly analyze what Star Wars means to me on a meta-textual level. So much of it has always been something I've instinctively understood somewhere deep in my psyche, but only in recently times have I finally started to put these feelings into words.

It finally got to the point that i actually ended up making a Star Wars sideblog on tumblr so that i had somewhere to spew all of my feels, hehe.

When it comes to more meta like the essay I've quoted above, these types of posts are few and far between, I've discovered. That said, I'm always searching for more, as well as constantly thinking of topics to write on in more depth. :)

Here is something I wrote and posted on my SW blog this past summer:

The Chosen One, the Hero’s Journey, and breaking the cycle of enslavement in Star Wars

And here is a link to a film student's essay I encountered while researching the history of the general public's perception of the Prequels:

Revisiting the Star Wars Prequels

See also my general meta tag HERE.

As you can probably tell, one of my main focuses these days is the Skywalker saga (by this i refer to the six main films by Lucas). I have many other SW-related interests, of course, but due to the current popularity of certain aspects of the the 'new canon', much of my meta ends up taking the shape of defending the integrity of the story told in the PT and the OT -- a story that I feel strongly is a complete and coherent (and ultimately positive and uplifting) myth, and one that stands very well on its own, without the need for a so-called sequel. :)

Thank you so much, I will be reading your meta and I now have bookmarked your blog. Such a good idea to make it and I'm glad that you posted this here, otherwise I wouldn't have come across it, since I don't have the tendency to search for meta.

So thanks again, I'm excited to read what you have written.

You're most welcome! I'm glad I decided to post this here. ^.^

I am too! Otherwise, I wouldn't have come across such awesome post. (Just read about Anakin's time as a slave, poor kid).

Aww, yes, his tale is just so heart-wrenching. I wish more people would take the time to understand the purpose of this character and his role in the saga....

It is. It's not really hard to see that the poor kid needed some stability. And as much as I like the idea of the Jedi, they most certainly not the ones that Ani needed.

Yeah, I feel like it's pretty clear that what Anakin needed (and wanted) more than anything was a *family*. (A father figure, his mother, Padme, his own family, eventually, etc. I could go on.) And this is the main area where the (old) Jedi Order fell short -- for him, especially. We are always meant to see Qui-Gon's death as this fate-changing tragedy (hence the title of the scene, 'Duel of the Fates'), because Qui-Gon is one of -- if not the only -- Jedi in the Order at the time who could have been the father-figure *and* mentor that Anakin needed. Others had the capacity to be great mentors and teachers, but it is clear that Qui-Gon's level of compassion and his ability to demonstrate it openly were rare qualities amongst the Jedi at that time, indeed. Also, Qui-Gon had a much less rigid interpretation of the Code than others did, and would likely have been able to assist Anakin in his eventual struggles with certain aspects of said Code. (Amongst many other things!)

I think we are meant to see that, if Qui-Gon had lived and been able to teach and mentor Anakin, that perhaps even he and Anakin might have become agents of positive change within the Jedi Order. Together, perhaps some of the rigidity of the Jedi's adherence to certain aspects of the Code might have been able to be reformed. It's of course just speculation on my part, but I think this is hinted at. (Also, Qui-Gon is someone who never would have stood for the Jedi's partcipation in the Clone Wars. In TPM, he was very firm about his role. Recall what he said to Padme: "I can only protect you, I cannot fight a war for you." This is what the Jedi Order's *true* role is, to be protectors and keepers of the peace, and it is no surprise, therefore, that it is the Order's participation in the Clone Wars that leads directly to its eventual destruction, just as Palpatine/Sidious had always planned.)

While Obi-Wan most definitely stepped up to the plate and then some when it came to teaching Anakin, and while the two them eventually grew close as *brothers*, Obi-Wan was never able to provide Anakin with the father-figure (and father-son dynamic) that he so desperately craved. (And this is where Palpatine so coldly and calculatedly stepped in -- Palpatine is characterized much as a child-abuser in this regard, and one that, imo, the Jedi Order failed to protect Anakin from.) Also, there is the fact that, because Anakin was brought into the Order later than others, he did not grow up even with the communal group of younglings of his age group, so even *that* sort of 'adoptive sibling' dynamic was lost to him. Add to that the fact that he was not allowed to visit his mother during the intervening years between TPM and AotC, and we start to see how all of the heart-breaking tragedy surrounding this character begins to unfold.

I agree so much with Qui-Gon being what Ani needed when it came to the Jedi Order. He would have been a calming and understanding presence that Ani needed so much and of course, being the father that Ani lacked. Not to take anything away from Obi-Wan, because he tried, but perhaps he wasn't the best one to train Ani. Yes, he did care for him and viewed him as a brother, but as you said, Ani needed a father (and his mother, of course!).

Yes, I completely agree! I don't know if you watch Star Wars: Rebels or not, but this is one of the reasons I find the character of Kanan Jarrus so interesting -- through him, we can observe the very important fact that a Jedi *can* indeed balance being both a mentor *and* a father figure all at the same time (as shown through the very warm and openly loving and compassionate relationship between him and Ezra, and the equally beautiful father-daughter type bond he has with Sabine). And not only that, but we also see that Kanan is able to be both a Jedi (someone committed to serving the will of the Force), while *also* being a 'husband'/committed romantic partner to someone at the same time (as demonstrated through his relationship with Hera).

The fascinating (and ironic) part of all of this, is that Kanan is only able to be like this because of the fact that the Jedi Order no longer exists. While what has happened to the Jedi during and post-RotS is of course tragic beyond description, it is still very interesting to me to see how Kanan is able to act now that he is not bound by the rigid interpretations of these elements of the Jedi Code that contributed (in part) to that very Order's destruction. And what is more, Kanan is characterized as someone who actually turned his back on the Force and all that went with it for a long time, and it was only meeting Hera and falling for her and joining her cause that made him tap back into that side of himself. So, not only is Kanan shown to be someone who *can* be both a Jedi and be romantically involved with someone, but also as someone who actually *NEEDS* his romantic partner (and his whole adoptive family) to help give him purpose and inspire him to be the best Jedi he can possibly be.

Now, does this sound familiar? I would say so. I would actually say that, in this regard, at least, Kanan is not so different than Anakin. In that he needed LOVE in his life (both familial and romantic), and to be able to show and express and *receive* it openly and without censure, in order to help give him purpose, to inspire him to be the best version of himself, and to keep him on the 'right' track.

Of course, Kanan is his own character with his own unique qualities and his own journey, and we can't directly compare and/or contrast him and Anakin in every single respect (Anakin's role as the Chosen One automatically makes it impossible to fully compare him to *anyone*, as this destiny of his is truly unique within the scope of the saga, and affects his character in that his immense powers contribute to his difficulties in controlling his equally great emotions, etc.), but it is clear that Kanan Jarrus is intended, in part, as a compassionate commentary on Anakin Skywalker....and, perhaps, as a commentary on the entire Jedi Order as a whole.

Through Kanan's character we see that, without the restrictions of the Order, he seems to have come almost naturally to a state of being that is much more along the lines of someone like Qui-Gon Jinn, than, say, some of the other 'old-school' Jedi.

I haven't had the chance to watch Rebels (I'm not in the US), and I'm trying to see if the page where I watch American TV has it (haven't checked). But it sounds like an interesting show, I'm glad to hear about Kanan, it sounds like they are exploring the possibilities and the roads not taken when the Order was in is heyday.

In all frankness I never quite understood the Order's need to forbid attachment. Yes, it's a double sided sword and some Jedi could have had the chance of falling --like Qui Gon after Tahl's death--, but overall, it's also a very powerful motivator for good.

Ahhh, apologies for going on and on about something you haven't seen yet! What I said isn't really spoiler-y, it's all stuff that is established pretty early on, but, yeah...I get carried away about this topic, as you can tell, lol. ;p

And yes, I can't help but concur with you on that one -- I personally feel that the part of the Code that forbids all romantic attachments (and thereby familial attachments as well) is a later addition and/or interpretation of the Code. Because the Jedi are a religious Order, they obviously need to have a Code of some sort, but as Qui-Gon said, Codes should not existence solely to govern *behaviour*. They should instead merely act as a guide or roadmap to understanding the Force. In other words, what is truly important about any rule is the *spirit* of the law, rather than the 'letter' of the law.

The Jedi believe in non-attachment, or rather, in practicing *detachment* on both a spiritual and material level, but imo, eschewing these types of relationships is not actually necessary to achieve this. These things are not mutually exclusive. In some ways, never allowing the Jedi to experience these sorts of relationships merely attempts to remove any form of 'temptation' towards attachment from their paths. Whereas, it's more difficult, perhaps, to find a level of detachment in one's outlook and actions while one has actual 'attachments' in form of loved ones, but ultimately this would help Jedi achieve a truer and more lasting form of 'non-attachment' (if that makes sense), if they could likewise find balance in all aspects of their own lives. And while there are of course some risks inherent in allowing Jedi to have relationships (and families), imo, there are just as many risks in forbidding this....as we know all-too well.

This is just my interpretation, but I feel sometimes like we are meant to see the 'no romantic relationships' thing as a sort of 'forbidden fruit' scenario with the the Jedi, and an element that was not always inherent in their beliefs, and which was perhaps tacked on to the Code later. It seems like a fear-based rule, rather than something totally necessary. Sure, there is an element of practicality in preferring that warrior monks not have their own families to worry about so that they can focus their attentions and loyalties to the Order itself, but again, this does not automatically equate to 'no romantic attachments *at all*'. But by the time of the Prequels there also seems to be an attitude amongst the Jedi of 'oh no, but what if' -- worrying about the consequences, etc., as though it were an inevitable conclusion that *all* romantic attachment leads inherently to disaster.... which is itself a 'fear of loss' based way of looking at things.

I also cannot help but think of George Lucas' very first film, THX 1183, about a sci-fi dystopian world controlled by 'robotic police' where love/desire is outlawed. The two main characters come to an awakening and stop taking their medication that suppresses such feelings/desires. While of course this is not exactly the same situation as the Jedi Order on Coruscant, it is interesting that, in the Prequels, Lucas decided to make the romantic attachments something that is so strictly forbidden by the Jedi at this time.

All I'm getting at here, is that I feel that we are indeed meant to see this as a flaw of the Jedi Order, in the sense that perhaps this part of the Code had become overly rigid by this point, and thus the Jedi's inability to see beyond the 'black and white' in this matter is intended to be viewed as a failing on their part.

Edited 2017-02-18 11:18 (UTC)

Don't apologize! I am so behind on tv shows, it's not even funny at this point. And since I follow SW blogs, I get the occasional SW: R post, which I find interesting.

I don't know if you've ever seen "Avatar: The Last Airbender", but your post reminded me of a scene there. The Avatar, having been raised by monks that all life is precious is having a hard time thinking of how to defeat the man who is trying to kill him and speaking with a past self, his past life tells him that as an Avatar, he cannot completely detach from life, as seeing it was his duty to protect it.

Which brings me to think that maybe that is what went wrong with the Jedi Order when it comes to non-attachment, by completely detaching themselves of the emotional side of it, they lost sight of how powerful emotions are, and how they can be both a good thing and in some occasions, a bad thing.

Those who have fallen seem to (to me at least) have experienced emotional isolation and since there is no support whatsoever, they fell to the dark side. Qui-Gon was close to falling after Tahl's death, Ani fell due to his mother's death and the fear for Padme's life and if those two cases show me something, is that while Ani could speak his fears with Padme herself, and she did what she could to sooth them, he still lacked more emotional support.

As much as I love Obi-Wan, I cannot help but to go back to the scene where Ani is speaking of his visions and he responds 'dreams pass in time', and I wonder if little comments like this made throughout the years made Ani weary of speaking with Obi-Wan.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say, is that perhaps by shutting themselves away, the Order was ill-prepared to deal with situations like these.

Oooh, I loved Avatar: The Last Airbender! It's been ages since I've seen it, but I do remember the part you mentioned. And I agree that this is a big part of what is going on here with the Jedi too. In trying so hard to sort of put the 'greater good' (aka, the 'universal' side of the Force) before the individual, they lost track of the fact that all-too often, the *individual *is a key part of the whole , and needs special attention, etc. (iirc, this is what being in touch with the 'Living' Force refers to, and what Qui-Gon was more inclined toward than many of the other Jedi at the time). And of course, the Prequels are the perfect example of how the struggles of the individual can both embody *and* affect the struggles of not just an entire religious order, but also that of the galaxy as a whole.

"Which brings me to think that maybe that is what went wrong with the Jedi Order when it comes to non-attachment, by completely detaching themselves of the emotional side of it, they lost sight of how powerful emotions are, and how they can be both a good thing and in some occasions, a bad thing."

I just had to highlight what you said here as I agree completely! Anakin experiences SUCH powerful emotions, and it is heartbreaking that, from the start, he is made to feel as though these emotions are inherently bad or wrong. His 'fear of loss', especially. This is a normal human emotion, especially for a child who has only just come from a difficult life situation and has left behind the only family member he'd ever had. It's not a trait that in and of itself leads automatically to darkness. It is, as you say, only Anakin's emotional isolation , in the sense of how badly he needs (and lacks) a deeper sort of guidance about his often frighteningly intense prophetic dreams, as well as his equally intense emotions -- both the position and the 'negative' emotions that he experiences on a daily basis, that leads to so much pain later on. (In part because, the judgmental attitude that he was met with from the start seems to have only made him less likely to seek this deeper sort of assistance directly from his fellow Jedi in later times.)

And this brings me to another thing -- the way these interpretations of the Code have developed by the time of the Prequels-era seems almost as though the Jedi had become....i don't know... afraid, perhaps, of 'the Dark Side'. I say this because, in my opinion, it is probably an extremely natural thing for every single Jedi (or Jedi-in-training) to have a brush with the Dark Side now and then, even perhaps frequently. But the problem arises when these experiences are treated as something that 'taints' the one who experiences it. As something to be ashamed of, rather than something that is just part of the normal journey of being/becoming a Jedi. (Or even just part and parcel of the life of *any* Force-wielder.) Not only is this unrealistic expectation of all Force wielders (aka, to never ever give in to darker emotions), but it also leaves them more open to the suggestions of those who *would* use these darker emotions to their own evil purposes (*cough* Palpatine/Sidious *cough*).

Instead of trying to make themselves into 'robots' who never experience and/or exhibit any sort of strong 'personal' emotions, the Jedi should be trying to figure out how to balance and channel the emotions they do experience, and to be understanding and compassionate of the fact that some will fall into darkness at times, but that this doesn't mean they are totally lost or 'damaged goods', but simply that they have experienced something that will, hopefully, only make them stronger and more able to handle such intense emotions or emotionally difficult situations (such as personal loss, etc) in the long run.

Edited 2017-02-19 15:52 (UTC)

Avatar was such a great show, wasn't it? And I concur. The Jedi clung into a way of life that ultimately, brought their destruction. And I have no doubt that this was coming, even had Ani not turned, something, someone would ultimately done something that affected the Order as we have the perfect example on The Clone Wars with Barriss. She was perhaps the first obvious and most glaring sign that something was going wrong and they basically ignored it.

It is indeed Ani's emotional isolation that causes his downfall. Which is such a sad thing, because he was essentially a wonderful person. I don't know if you follow the comics "Anakin & Obi Wan" but in one of them (can't remember what chapter) Ani is doubting his place in the Order and perhaps thinking of leaving it; and Obi Wan tells him to think deeply about it. But I wonder if that wasn't Ani's way to try and reach Obi Wan in another manner that, unfortunately, failed. Ani's a very intense character, without a doubt due to his past life experiences and I wonder if Obi Wan was the proper teacher for him. I agree with you that Qui Gon would have been a better teacher to Anakin than what he was to Obi Wan (I have read some books that have made me think that perhaps Qui Gon wasn't the best suited to have Obi Wan as a padawan).And bringing in another of my fandoms, don't know if you have seen The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, but in there, there's a scene where Gandalf mentions that it's often small things/acts that keep darkness at bay; it makes me wonder if perhaps the Order blinded itself at what makes a person good and what motivates them to fight the proverbial good fight.

I actually agree with you on the fact that I also think that the Order was if not fearful, but extremely wary of all the things that involve the dark side. Instead of treating the brush as a learning tool, it's met with fear and distrust. And yes, it does leave them open to any sort of emotional manipulation.

You know, I also think that they also forgot that peace and calm can be achieved by letting your emotions out. Yes, there will always be people who are naturally calm and zen and there will others who will need an outlet for whatever is that they are feeling so they can achieve that calm the Order requires.

"Jedi should be trying to figure out how to balance and channel the emotions they do experience, and to be understanding and compassionate of the fact that some will fall into darkness at times, but that this doesn't mean they are totally lost or 'damaged goods'"

Well said.

Yes, Avatar is truly a wonderful animated series. One of my faves (alongside The Clone Wars and , thus far, Rebels). I greatly enjoyed the characters and themes explored in that series, and there are indeed many overlapping elements with Star Wars. I haven't yet seen any of the follow-up series, the one about Korra (?). Do you recommend it?

Regarding your point about something devastating happening to the Jedi Order regardless of whether or not Anakin had turned, oh my gosh, YES. I totally agree. This is strongly, strongly hinted at all throughout (both the Prequels and TCW). I get very frustrated when people view Anakin as somehow solely responsible for what happens. I don't deny his role in all of it, of course, but it must not be forgotten that it is Palpatine/Sidious' machinations that a) cause the Clone Wars, and b) lead the entire Republic and the Jedi Order along with it to the point that they are perfectly primed and ready to fall as of the end of Revenge of the Sith. Order 66 is something that Sidious had planned for long, long time, and something he was merely waiting around and biding his time before carrying out. He had actually tried first to start a galactic war over a decade earlier, as of The Phantom Menace, and if he had succeeded, this would have sped up his intended process. (Ironically, it is Anakin and Padme who prevent him from succeeding in that instance, but I digress...) Which brings me to another point -- Sidious already had an apprentice all the way back then, and was always *going* to have an apprentice to carry out his will, no matter what. He just couldn't believe his luck when the Chosen One himself basically fell into his lap and he seized his opportunity to prey upon Anakin's fears, etc. (Something that the comic you mentioned make abundantly clear, i feel.)

And speaking of the Obi-Wan and Anakin comic, omg, yes!! That comic is amazing. Heartbreaking, but very well done. I'm not overly keen on all the 'new canon' comics across the board, but I would say that along with the Kanan comics, the Obi-Wan and Anakin comic is my absolute fave of all those newer comics thus far. The artwork is so beautiful and definitely more 'my' style.

It's so interesting that you bring up that particular part of the comic, as I highlighted that very scene here on my blog. The part when Anakin is considering leaving the Order is so incredibly heartwrenching, and made even moreso by the fact that Obi-Wan is prepared to leave with him, if he chooses to do so, but is keeping this fact to himself so as not to sway Anakin's decision. But of course, one has to wonder that if maybe Obi-Wan had only reassured Anakin that he would accompany him should he leave the Order, that maybe young Ani might have actually gone through with it. As we all, know all Ani really wants is to be part of a family (and to help people), hence why he makes the choice to remain in the Order at the end of that comic (as the preceding events have convinced him that he is better able to help others by doing so). And Obi-wan is relieved, thinking that Anakin will be safer from the Dark Side within in the confines/structure of the Order -- which of course is the biggest dramatic irony ever, as we all know that the opposite proves true.

[cont'...]

Edited 2017-02-22 13:29 (UTC)

Korra is good, but no where near The Last Airbender's level of good. And I'm a tad disappointed with the comics also. Korra suffered because it was cut (budget) and the storylines aren't as engaging. Yes, Korra suffers more blows than Aang ever did and you do feel for her, but for me, TLA is far superior.

Yes, I agree. Ani turning wasn't the only problem for the Jedi, it ultimately was the culmination of issues that had been plaguing the order, but not the whole source.

I love that comic myself. But I do admit that I'm also into the Shattered Empire and Poe Dameron comics.

You know, maybe had Ani known that Obi-Wan was prepared to leave with him, it would have if not swayed him to remain, at least reassure him that Obi-Wan cared about him enough to go with him and perhaps, it would have opened more their brotherhood to the point where Ani would have felt more comfortable sharing what he felt with Obi-Wan. But oh well.

Oh, good to know about the Korra series. I may give it a try at some point, though I am still undecided!

And I should have perhaps clarified that the Obi-Wan and Anakin comic is my favourite of the comics that I've actually read thus far. I have avoided a great many of them, including the ones you mention, because unfortunately I am not a fan of the new canon's version of events post-RotJ (or anything to do with TFA) at all. Though the art for Shattered Empire does look nice, from what I have seen. :)

And yes, I agree about your assessment of Obi and Ani in that instance. *sighs forever*

I think the first 3 seasons of Korra are solid (save for the damn love triangle), but the 4th suffered from cuts and it shows.

Ah I see. That's fine, you shouldn't subject yourself to read things you don't like. Personally, I'm enjoying them, but that's me.

Oh indeed, what it could have been!

Oh, yeah, argh, love triangles can be SO infuriating (mostly because they usually aren't necessary).

And you're not alone in enjoying those, many others do too! I wish I could enjoy that side of things, believe me. The fact that I can't has caused me a great deal of anguish and anxiety this past year, not to mention often made me feel very isolated from the fandom in general. But sadly, the whole thing (TFA, I mean) nearly destroyed my enjoyment of SW forever, and I've spent the last year now steadily trying to build it back. So, I definitely don't mean to sound overly negative or dismissive or anything, I just can't bring myself to ever accept something as a canonical part of the Star Wars saga when I feel it destroys the meaning and significance of everything that came before.

Now that said, I am not against the 'new canon' entirely, nor am I somehow adverse to any new additions to the SW universe as a whole. For me, it just depends on the nature and implications of such additions. There have been a number of things i've quite enjoyed, including Rebels, the above-mentioned comics, the A New Dawn novel, and, more recently, Rogue One. I wrote my thoughts on that film here on tumblr (and cross posted here on LJ). :)

Edited 2017-02-26 10:12 (UTC)

I second you on the love triangles, I don't like them most of the time.

Hey, don't be hard on yourself, it's ok to dislike parts of the canon. It happens. And I'm sorry that you feel that you almost lost your interest (listen girl, I get you, do you know how much I'm suffering with the DC movie universe?).

I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed Rogue One, it was such a solid movie and I was so happy with it. I'm trying to get my hands on "Bloodline", Leia's book, by all accounts, it's a good one.

[..cont'.]

I think you're right as well in saying that the Order wasn't necessary fearful *of* the Dark Side itself. I mean, most of the Jedi are not cowering in fear of the Sith and are courageous in standing against darksiders in general , etc. Rather, their reticence seems to be more in regard to freely *exploring* the Dark Side in the sense of using it/tapping into it. Which is understandable, given that that Jedi Order is dedicated to the Light. But at the same time, this reticence or even fear of allowing this type of exploration seems to have lead the Jedi to the point of not even knowing much about or truly understanding the Sith and/or Dark Side. And if one doesn't even know or fully understand one's 'enemy', then the enemy will always have the advantage. Which is precisely what happens.

You are also spot-on about how there are many ways of achieving inner-peace and calm, and many ways of 'holding back the darkness'. And the fact is that , for some Jedi, this might take the shape of being allowed to have an outlet for their stronger emotions, or to even be allowed to have the emotional support of family members/loved ones. For, as you say, some people just *need* something (or someone) to fight for, alongside their more general role as 'protectors of the galaxy'. The greater good can be adequate motivation for some, but maybe not the 'be all and end all' for everyone. After all, *family* is the building block of any civilization, however advanced, and if those who are supposed to be the protectors of civilization have forgotten the importance of this essential element, it is no surprise that the whole thing can so easily come tumbling down.

Edited 2017-02-22 13:30 (UTC)

I think the fear stems from the thought that the Dark Side is seductive. And while I have no doubt that for some it might be so, not every Jedi would find himself seduced by it. And I think Ani would have been better prepared to deal with Sidious had they thought of preparing him better.

Indeed. To be honest, I'm not sure why the Jedi thought the 'one size fits all' when it comes to the attachment rule. Some people need something or someone to keep the going. And I think by closing themselves in such way, they were very ill prepared to deal with Ani. And we all know how things go.

You're absolutely right I think about the fear over the Dark Side being 'seductive', and of course it is a legitimate fear.

That said, I've always found it frustrating, what Yoda says in ESB, how 'once you start down a dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, etc.' While there is truth in that statement in terms of how it turns out for some, I have to wonder if that is all there is to it. I often feel like one of Luke's many roles is to help prove that wrong, or at least to show another side to this. (Just as he proves Obi-Wan's assessment of Ani being lost forever wrong, too.)

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but just my musings. Again, it comes down to the importance of 'knowing thine enemy' -- even the inner 'enemy' or inner darkness within oneself!

You know, I think it comes down to a flawed view on the person's humanity -if you want to call it that- that makes both Obi Wan and Yoda's assessment wrong.

You might be onto something with Luke, after all, it was his appeal to his father that brought Ani back to the light.

No, I think you are on the right train of thoughts. I do feel that the Jedi would have benefited of studying themselves and the dark side more.

Hullo! This is actually Muldertorture herself! Please don't mind my lj. It's old. Extremely old. I actually had to reset the password just to get in to type this comment!
I'm really glad you liked what I had to say. Swifty and I talk ALOT about this sort of stuff, but she definitely knows about more of the meta than I do. Basically, the meta I would reccommend is linked at the end of my essay. I highly suggest you check out the ring theory. Between my meagre contribution and swifty's mass of sources, I think you should be set! If ever you want to talk, you can find me under the handle muldertorture on tumblr!

Enjoy!

Nice to see you here, my friend! ^.^ (And no worries about 'old' accounts -- I think many of us on this site have at least somewhat older or outright outdated accounts at this rate, hehe.)

And thank you for the reminder about the reference links at the end of your post -- I second those recommendations!

Thank you so much, I will do some reading, thanks for the recs.

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