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swiftsnowmaneFor the original post within the context of the thread, see here.
Written in response to a post by
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brashcandy (if you see this, my friend, know that I miss you and still think of the good ol' days!):On 7/25/2012, 12:04:52, brashcandy said:A few things I've been wondering lately:
- Given Sandor's dominance in Sansa's life, would it realistic at this point for Martin to introduce another romantic option for her? Do all roads lead to Sandor? Some new perspectives on this would be interesting. (of course he has introduced another option for her already in HtH :) I mean one that we should take seriously)
- Sansa's role as as mother to Sweetrobin. It seems to be a popular opinion that SR represents Sansa's ultimate moral test so to speak. If she saves him, then it essentially means she's saved herself from LF as well. Agree/disagree and is Martin making a larger statement about mothering in the series via this relationship?
I've been traveling and without internet again for a couple of days, and I come back to find you discussing something I had just been thinking about! :) Interesting that you bring up the topic of Motherhood in regards to Sansa, because now that I finally have ASoIaF on my Kindle, I've been able to do some brief re-reads of Sansa chapters even while traveling. I recently re-read Sansa's ACoK chapters and of course motherhood is mentioned a great deal throughout that particular book (which is no surprise to you of course having done many re-reads).
I’m sure all of the below has already been touched up on in the previous re-read threads. I have read the entire Sansa re-read and re-thinking series of threads but after thirteen(?) of them I am already forgetting some specifics. :P
Obviously, many things have changed for Sansa since ACoK. She seems to be disillusioned to the point that she says she no longer wishes to be married, because she feels no one will love her for herself, only for her claim. I don’t know if my observations below have much bearing on her storyline with Sweetrobin, but I couldn’t help but notice some interesting details in the chapters leading up to the Blackwater.
Sansa’s first flowering, (which as we all know happens with Sandor present, hehe) and which also leads to Cersei’s attempt to give her some ‘womanly’ advice, signifies not just her entrance into womanhood but also the potential for motherhood for Sansa (hence why she freaks out and burns the ‘evidence’ in the first place, since she does not want to have to be forced into giving Joffrey heirs). Note that even after this moment (and after Cersei’s rather harsh advice about only loving your children and loving being a poison, etc.), Sansa still seems to consciously think positively about potentially becoming a mother -- this is prior to her dreams about Willas and puppies in Highgarden, and her dreams about having children named after her siblings and father, afterall. What she is already dreading and railing against is being forced to have children with Joffrey, a Lannister, aka being forced into a marriage with him (and consummating it) --- something that is most certainly not her choice.
Even though choice is important to Sansa (though at this point in ACoK she is not necessarily articulating this out loud), some aspects of motherhood (and possible foreshadowing on GRRM’s part?) seem to be almost completely instinctual for Sansa.
The scene in the Sept before the battle when everyone is praying to the Mother stands out. Sansa visits each of the altars and lights a candle (even for the Stranger’s ‘half-human face’), and proceeds to sing the hymn to the Mother with the other people gathered there (all the while recalling how her own mother was the one to teach her hymn.
QuoteSansa visited each of the Seven in turn, light a candle at each altar, and then found herself a place on the benches between a wizened old washer woman and a boy no older than Rickon, dressed in the fine linen tunic of a knight’s son. The old woman’s hand was bony and hard with callus, the boy’s small and soft, but it was good to have someone to hold on to.
It struck me as interesting that here Sansa is placed between an old woman and a little child --- this is the Mother’s position in the traditional “Maiden, Mother, Crone”, not in the Maiden’s position as might be expected. (Foreshadowing?)
Later, within Maegor’s Holdfast, even while Sansa is shocked at Cersei’s talk of the possibility of rape, and blushing at her mention of using what is between her legs as a weapon, it is actually Cersei herself who is described as maiden, in a white dress, with her hair worn long and loose as an unmarried woman:
QuoteCersei’s gown was snowy linen, white as the cloaks of the Kingsguard. Her long dagged sleeves showed a lining of gold stain. Masses of bright yellow hair tumbled to her bare shoulders in thick curls. Around her slender neck hung a rope of diamonds and emeralds. The white made her look strangely innocent, almost maidenly, but there were points of color on her cheeks.
Interestingly, it is an older woman and children who are something of a catalyst for Sansa standing up in Cersei’s places as the mothering comfortor to the people within Maegor’s Holdfast:
Quote”Oh gods,” an old woman wailed. “We’re lost, the battle’s lost, she’s running.” Several children were crying. They can smell the fear. Sansa found herself alone on the dais. Should she stay here, or run after the queen and plead for her life?
She never knew why she got to her feet, but she did. “Don’t be afraid,” she told them loudly.
I know many people take this as an example of foreshadowing for Sansa’s queenly behavior (as a possible future queen), and I agree that it is likely meant as such. I do think though that this moment also can be read as an example of Sansa’s mothering abilities coming to the forefront in a more public sphere.
Significant as well is that by the end of the night she has experienced an intensely private, intimate moment in which she sings the Mother’s hymn to Sandor Clegane. Of course there is the romantic/erotic aspect to their interaction and especially in relation to Sansa’s later memories of it, and I certainly don’t think Sansa is acting as the Mother during the entire scene. But that moment when she sings the hymn (which she had previously sung in the Sept as a prayer for her entire family as well as for Sandor and for his rage to be gentled), and when ‘some instinct’ makes her reach up and touch his face, are probably the only moments of ‘mothering’ that Sandor may have known in a long, long time.
As for Martin making a statement about mothering in the series in regards to Sansa/Alayne’s later relationship to Sweetrobin, I definitely think this is the case. Robert Arryn is a difficult child in many ways because of Lysa’s way of mothering him (or at least, that is what I think GRRM is instinuating here). I find it strange to think that GRRM would show us this boy who had such a ‘problematic’ mothering as a child and then basically put him into a situation where that would….not change at all. Unless of course, this is because he is intending for Sansa to help LF kill him or to allow him to kill him. But once again, I would also find it odd that so much symbolism regarding motherhood has gone into Sansa’s chapters, only to have her become the complete opposite of the Mother figure. Was all the motherhood symbolism in ACoK and elsewhere really just meant for those two climactic moments with the women and children in Maegor's Holdfast and in her bedroom with Sandor Clegane? I find that hard to believe.
It is certainly possible that LF may twist her quite far into morally grey areas (he is already doing so). But, is it only Sansa who is associated with Motherhood? Is Alayne a ‘bad’ mother? I don’t know....
As brashcandy noted, Sansa and Alayne are not nearly as distinct personalities as some would believe. “That day is done and so is Sansa”…..well, GRRM may want us to believe this for now, for whatever reason, but obviously Sansa is still there. As long as through the Alayne persona Sansa is able to explore her own latent abilities to a more amplified degree, then I think 'that which makes Sansa Sansa' will survive the time as Alayne. Sansa has always had great compassion, as well as an ability to generate admiration and loyalty from those around her. But even as Sansa, she has always had harder, colder, stronger, and braver sides to her character. I hope that Sansa’s instinctual mothering and compassionate abilities will continue to shine through, no matter what LF may have her do. Even though she is reluctant to take on Sweetrobin and to become his mother at first due to how difficult he can be, I find it rather poignant that she is nonetheless so good at it. It is yet another reminder of how much she once wanted children of her own, and how she has for now given up hope of at least having children within a marriage. If Sweetrobin is indeed Sansa's only chance at motherhood for now, I sincerely hope that GRRM does not twist it irrevocably down a path so dark that there is no return. I hope that it is significant that motherhood seems to come to Sansa almost by instinct, and that LF won’t be able to stamp out those innate aspects of her character however hard he tries to shape 'Alayne' to his own design.
In general, I hope that if Sansa must be Alayne for now that she can basically 'take over' Alayne for herself. Instead of being Alayne all the time in her heart, she will be Sansa in her heart, and wear Alayne like a Faceless Man mask.
End note:
This post was (obviously) written prior to the release of the Alayne Stone chapter from TWoW last year, but even so, I am not sure that what was shown to us in that chapter will have drastically changed this reading. There are still speculations that Sansa/Alayne will help LF kill Sweetrobin, but until that does or does not come to pass, I feel this reading still remains valid.
I still hold that Sansa is wearing 'Alayne Stone' like a mask, and learning more about *herself* while doing so. I feel she will return to being Sansa Stark eventually. She will be a different Sansa Stark, certainly, but still Sansa, and still a Stark. I feel that she will survive and will become Queen (or Regent) in the North by the end of the series. But that's just my personal endgame scenario. We will just have to see. Might be a long time until we do though, so until then, all we have is this kind of speculation.
